Is this the AAC/ BE poach - version 3.0 ? (Confirmed)

the Blades

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Sorry Aresco.... this is who you'll always be, a conference on the verge of implosion. So when the Sooners and Longhorns leave, will the 8 team Big 12 look to add 2 or 4 schools from the AAC ?

 

the Blades

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And if I where the AAC, waiting to get poached again too. Or could this be the start of the P-4 ?

 
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the Blades

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Sounds like this could really happen. I'm just glad Uconn can sit this one out....OK St comments....

 
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the Blades

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So another ESPN content grab would leave the Big 12 as naked as the old BE with these 8 FB & BB schools.

Baylor
Kansas
West Virginia
Oklahoma St
Texas Tech
TCU
Kansas State
Iowa State

Where do they and FOX ( their TV partners) go from there? Houston , Cincy, Memphis, UCF ? Then where does Aresco go for backfill ? Marshall, Mid Tenn, Rice, UTSA ?
 
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KhalidShockedTheWorld

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I think Ralph Russo's comments hit the nail on the head. The fight that I had envisioned, however, was the upper echelon P5 schools looking to replace the lower echelon, less competitive, lower revenue creating P5 schools with other schools that are viewed as up and comers. Such fights are not a new development, nor are they unique to the Power 5-wasn't Temple at one time asked to leave the Big East? Haven't other schools been dropped by other, lower echelon conferences, because they were perceived to drag down the conference? The media may act as though this is a new development, but it's an old development. The bottom line is that there are going to be winners and losers in every college conference and the question is when there is a lot of money at stake, should the haves be required to share with have nots that do not contribute anything. It's almost like the debate between capitalism and communism. The winners are motivated by greed and capitalism, and the losers want a sharing of the wealth even if they do not bring anything to the table. College sports is a microcosm of this debate we also see in national politics.
 

the Blades

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Here's a Syracuse grads opinion from Yahoo......


"The league is beginning to discuss contingencies Thursday, as it’s obvious that this would be a devastating blow. Expect the Big 12 to be aggressive in adding schools. It'll knock on doors at Arizona and Arizona State. Perhaps it'll try and lure Colorado back and pry Utah. The Pac-12 is weak now, but the core of USC, Oregon, UCLA and Washington are all more attractive to be aligned with than any of the Big 12 schools."

"From there, the Big 12 will decide how big it wants to get. It has to decide whether to add two, four or six schools. Four seems like the most reasonable number, with Cincinnati, UCF, USF, BYU and Boise State the most likely candidates from outside the state of Texas. The potential addition of Houston and SMU becomes complicated, as Baylor, TCU and Texas Tech wouldn’t have much interest in more in-state competition.....Remember, it’s streaming subscriptions, not cable boxes, that matter most."
 

the Blades

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Also:
@PeteThamel
"Multiple sources have indicated to @YahooSports that Oklahoma and Texas are not expected to take part in the Big 12 call this evening. As we reported earlier, it’s a call to discuss the future and contingencies."

What about basketball?​

This is not a good day for Bill Self and Scott Drew. Those two national championship-winning coaches should be worried. As we’ve been reminded in the past, college basketball gets little consideration in the grand scheme of realignment.........The Big 12 in some reinvented form would still be a good basketball league. But this is an example that the fortunes of basketball programs, even elite ones, are an afterthought in the big picture. The billions of football money dictates these decisions.
 

the Blades

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And if I where the AAC, waiting to get poached again too. Or could this be the start of the P-4 ?
Sounds like some of the Big 12 leftovers have no interest in being packaged together in a conference with a bunch of the AAC misfits...( horray for Aresco !) . If that's the case could Kansas go Uconn's route? Join the Big East as the 12th member and go Indy in FB ?

They've had less wins (18) in FB than Uconn has since 2011 (30). And that's leaving out Uconn's Fiesta bowl year and KU playing an extra year, 2020, a season Uconn didn't even play.

 
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the Blades

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Sounds like TX and OU were as stealth about this as Uconn going back to the BE.

 

KhalidShockedTheWorld

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I read about Texas A&M issuing all these statements about "protecting their brand" and preserving their status as the only Texas school in the SEC. On what planet are they living? Where in the SEC charter does it say that they shall be the only Texas school ever invited?

As far as Kansas football sucking, I think they have sucked big time for a long time, although I think they did produce Hall of Famer Gale Sayers. However that was around 60 years ago and there has been lots of sucking going on since then. Most of the basketball blue blood schools are no good in football, or nothing special.

If the Big East takes any of the leftovers, it should only be Kansas and Baylor, let the other schools twist in the wind or join with the AAC.

It's down to P4, officially.
 

the Blades

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I think Ralph Russo's comments hit the nail on the head. The fight that I had envisioned, however, was the upper echelon P5 schools looking to replace the lower echelon, less competitive, lower revenue creating P5 schools with other schools that are viewed as up and comers. The bottom line is that there are going to be winners and losers in every college conference and the question is when there is a lot of money at stake, should the haves be required to share with have nots that do not contribute anything.
This ^^^ , from an article I posted (#4 ) on this site in 2019 written interestingly enough, by the OK Insider website:

Conference re-alignment will come - shaped by tech, not TV

“Conference realignment will come,” he said (high ranking executive at Amazon) , “but probably not in the way you’re thinking.” “We already have more cash than ABC/ESPN, NBC or CBS” he said. “And, In another five or six years, it won’t even be close. And too, ”the tech companies are far more advanced than the networks when it comes to knowing how to use the future broadcast technologies, (streaming) and that gap is growing to"........

Again, back to my friend at Amazon. “We’re still seven or eight years away,” he said, “but if we had to restructure the landscape today, we would not start by negotiating with a conference. We don’t care about the SEC, Big 12 of Big 10 as a whole. In our opinion, those entities are not our focus. “Instead, we would want to identify 30 or 40 teams that command the biggest audience. That may be by reputation or location, but generally we all know that there are members in every one of these conferences that frankly don’t move the needle.
 
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the Blades

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I read about Texas A&M issuing all these statements about "protecting their brand" and preserving their status as the only Texas school in the SEC. On what planet are they living? Where in the SEC charter does it say that they shall be the only Texas school ever invited?

As far as Kansas football sucking, I think they have sucked big time for a long time, although I think they did produce Hall of Famer Gale Sayers. However that was around 60 years ago and there has been lots of sucking going on since then. Most of the basketball blue blood schools are no good in football, or nothing special.

If the Big East takes any of the leftovers, it should only be Kansas and Baylor, let the other schools twist in the wind or join with the AAC.

It's down to P4, officially.
Very true, they sound alot like that AD Defilippo at BC, but sadly for Uconn's sake, he actually got away with it and BC has brought alot less to the table, in retrospect.
 

the Blades

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If this happens.....and then there were 4. The one thing these big conferences do forget is that they eventually will create alot more losers as far as actual win-lose records.

 

KhalidShockedTheWorld

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Texas A&M claiming SEC schools breached a "gentleman's agreement" by allowing Texas and OU into SEC:
These so called unwritten "gentlemen's agreements" also existed back in the day with certain "exclusive" Country Clubs that denied admission to members who were black, Jewish, and sometimes female. They were unwritten because no court of law anywhere would enforce a written restriction along those lines, so they made it a so called "gentlemen's agreement". So this argument in my mind is kind of stupid. There is also no legally enforceable consideration for the promise, that I can think of.
 
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the Blades

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Texas A&M claiming SEC schools breached a "gentleman's agreement" by allowing Texas and OU into SEC:
These so called unwritten "gentlemen's agreements" also existed back in the day with certain "exclusive" Country Clubs that denied admission to members who were black, Jewish, and sometimes female. They were unwritten because no court of law anywhere would enforce a written restriction along those lines, so they made it a so called "gentlemen's agreement". So this argument in my mind is kind of stupid. There is also no legally enforceable consideration for the promise, that I can think of.
I hear ya KSTW, I have no sympathy for any of these AD's who'd stab their mother in the back to get ahead of each other. Maybe A&M should just STFU and be happy they're raking in Million$. What about A&M leaving the Big 12 to the SEC to start all this crap ? How loyal were they to the Big 12 and their conference mates ?

Maybe they should ask Uconn about gentleman's agreements ? You know the type where all their Big East football "business partners" invite them and the state taxpayers in CT to spend almost a couple 100 million on a stadium and facilities because they needed to expand their FB league or have possible issues with the FBS.

And as soon as Uconn does their due diligence at the request of their partners and spends millions, 3 of the lying snakes run out the back door to the ACC. Then more of them do it again less than 10 years later.
 
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KhalidShockedTheWorld

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It all goes back to what your friend at Amazon said. These 20th Century notions of duties or "gentlemen's agreements" between schools as to conferences and/or conference alignment are now antiquated and very soon to become a thing of the past. These notions were always silly because there were always winners and losers and there were always schools which brought more to the table than other schools. Once you get past and strip away the conference form of organization, there is a bottom line on what any given school brings to the table for a streaming service in terms of the revenue and gate it generates in a particular sport. What is probably ultimately going to make more sense is creation of divisions for purposes of broadcast rights, rather than conferences. Schools can be grouped into categories based on the expected revenue and gate which they bring in for any broadcaster. The evolution of broadcast TV is very clearly headed towards that end.

Some will argue that this model will create a greater disparity between the haves and the have nots, if there is no revenue sharing with the latter. And there may be some legitimacy to this objection if we end up with a situation where it is the same teams competing for a national championship every year. We have already seen that to some extent in college football. Every year pretty much, Alabama, Clemson, and Ohio State are in the CFP. Who the 4th team is will rotate between Oklahoma, Notre Dame, LSU, and Georgia. You have to ask whether this is a good thing or not long term, and what chance does an up and coming football program have to be successful and break into this echelon of financially mighty teams. The one downside to the weakening of the NCAA's governance structure and allowing college athletes to essentially become free agents is now, more than ever, recruits will want to go to the school that can "show me the money", and one wonders if that will be the same schools year after year.
 
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Every year pretty much, Alabama, Clemson, and Ohio State are in the CFP. Who the 4th team is will rotate between Oklahoma, Notre Dame, LSU, and Georgia. You have to ask whether this is a good thing or not long term, and what chance does an up and coming football program have to be successful and break into this echelon of financially mighty teams.
Don't know if you saw this last month (the 12 team CFP) or not but now we know why TX and OK have no fear playing in the SEC and were glad about a push away from the 4 team model. Same with Notre Dame staying as an Indy. Seems like it's gonna pass so alot more of the blue bloods won't worry about getting left out with just one team from a conference (could mean more expansion in the P-4's) and be able to grab more $$$. ...

But there is some good news for the outsiders too. "For the first time, the highest-ranked Group of Five champion would be guaranteed a spot to play for the national championship......Independent FBS programs, including Notre Dame, would not be eligible for first-round byes in the field of 12. That means, if the Fighting Irish -- or any other independent team -- finish undefeated, even if ranked No. 1, the best they could do is a No. 5 seed hosting a play-in game."

College Football Playoff expansion: CFP board pushes 12

"Media rights sources have valued a 12-team playoff at approximately $1 billion per year."

Notre Dame Less Likely to Join Conference With CFP 12

Swarbrick indicated an easier path to the playoffs would be a boon to athletic department revenues.
( He's gotta love this because it's easier to get in.... plus as an Indy.... he doesn't have to pool & split bowl $$$ with other conference members, like most of them do with all their schools, even if they don't play in a bowl that year.)

Notre Dame qualified for the College Football Playoff twice in the last seven years (2019, 2021). It is possible (if not likely) the Irish would have made it six times had the 12-team format been in place over that same span
 
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Russ Wood

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Sounds like TX and OU were as stealth about this as Uconn going back to the BE.

Nah, everyone in the AAC knew Connecticut wanted to leave. It wasn't a surprise.

Texas, otoh, had its BOT Chairman reach out to the SEC via back channels. He was very stealth. Apparently the very few people in Texas who knew were very good at keeping quiet about it. The governor had to be on board in order for the talks with the SEC to get serious.

It was all happening right under the nose of TAMU.

One thing the BE should keep an eye on is NCAA Tournament bids. If the B1G, SEC, ACC & PAC go to 20-school super conferences the BE might lose a a bid or two
 

the Blades

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Nah, everyone in the AAC knew Connecticut wanted to leave. It wasn't a surprise.

Texas, otoh, had its BOT Chairman reach out to the SEC via back channels. He was very stealth. Apparently the very few people in Texas who knew were very good at keeping quiet about it. The governor had to be on board in order for the talks with the SEC to get serious.

It was all happening right under the nose of TAMU.

One thing the BE should keep an eye on is NCAA Tournament bids. If the B1G, SEC, ACC & PAC go to 20-school super conferences the BE might lose a a bid or two
Russ nice back handed shot at Uconn/the BE, LOL ! You should just go back to the Rutgers board with your buddies and all be happy they got into a P-5 when cable boxes really mattered ;).

Because if you read the link that I posted above from the OU board and from the Amazon exec regarding streaming , what's taking place right now was mentioned in 2018 and may not be over. "( high ranking executive at Amazon) . “Instead, we would want to identify 30 or 40 teams that command the biggest audience........generally we all know that there are members in every one of these conferences that frankly don’t move the needle. "

He also called the 6-7 year window.......plus he added: “Don’t sign anything -- don’t agree to anything!” my Amazon friend says. “And, don’t rely on your current conference alignment to be a life preserver; If and when the Titanic begins to list, it’s every man for himself......And, as the water begins to rise above their ankles, we can expect that conference commissioners, in self serving statements, will also be trying to save their jobs telling everyone that will listen that their beloved group of teams will survive, if they just stay together" ..... Sorry captain, but there’s only so many lifeboats!
 
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the Blades

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So the Big 12 is making a last minute attempt to reconcile with their soon to be former wife as she's on the way to the divorce lawyer.....;)...Please Honey take my money, LOL!

 

KhalidShockedTheWorld

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So this whole charade was a shakedown by Texas/OU to get more money out of the Big 12? Why don't they now change the name of the conference to the Big 2 and the Little 10?

Will this lead to a trickle down effect in other conferences? Will Clemson demand 1.5 shares from the ACC or they are going to the SEC? Will Ohio State now demand 1.5 shares from the Big 10 or else they are headed to the SEC? When will it end?
 
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the Blades

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So this whole charade was a shakedown by Texas/OU to get more money out of the Big 12? Why don't they now change the name of the conference to the Big 2 and the Little 10?

Will this lead to a trickle down effect in other conferences? Will Clemson demand 1.5 shares from the ACC or they are going to the SEC? Will Ohio State now demand 1.5 shares from the Big 10 or else they are headed to the SEC? When will it end?
+1.....Or maybe like you mentioned in your post above about schools getting kicked out of conferences and the rest of the charade. If that's the case, schools who have done nothing for decades like Rutgers
( no matter which conference they are in), BC, Northeastern, Vandy etc. should be lucky if they get a quarter share or it's time to hit the road. .... (see Ralph Russo's tweet above " When the teams at the top look at the teams at the bottom and say, "why do we need you" )

( Question- Have any of them ever won a Conference Championship in FB or played in a BCS bowl ? Uconn has and won 2 in just 7 years as a new FBS and BE member ? And let's not even talk about hoops, it's to embarrassing for most of the little/bottom feeder schools in the so-called P-5)
 
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the Blades

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So the Big 12 is making a last minute attempt to reconcile with their soon to be former wife as she's on the way to the divorce lawyer.....;)...Please Honey take my money, LOL!

I guess sometimes there's never enough money to work things out with an ex, when she found a better offer, LOL!

 

the Blades

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"In reality, Oklahoma and Texas began the first official step in a process that’s expected to end with them joining the SEC. While the timeline of when they’d play in the SEC is still muddled, the next steps are more clear........

Behind the scenes, Oklahoma and Texas are telling everyone possible that they will play out the remaining portion of their television contract through 2024. The waving of arms to get across that point is viewed more as legal strategy than reality........

First off, announcing a contract break isn’t wise. Second, officials from Oklahoma and Texas have buyouts that total nearly $150 million dollars. If they want to avoid paying more than $75 million each in exit fees, the schools’ best chance is to sit back, sing "Kumbaya" and wait to see if the Big 12 ends up dissolving. That strategy could save a lot of money."

 

KhalidShockedTheWorld

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They are trying to force a dissolution of the conference or merger with another conference so that the exit fees become a moot contractual issue. The other schools are all lame ducks, and when you are a lame duck in a lame conference known as the "Little Remaining 10 of the Big 12", you try to remedy that status. If you are sinking in quicksand you don't wait to see if the sands will shift so that you will be able to fall back on dry land. You do everything you can to get the hell out ASAP!!!! On top of that, this episode has SUBSTANTIALLY damaged the brand of the other 10 schools. Who now all look like peon little fish programs that are exposed for what they really are- bottom feeders. The Catfish and bullheads of Division 1 football. The only way to repair the damage is by merger.
 

the Blades

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They are trying to force a dissolution of the conference or merger with another conference so that the exit fees become a moot contractual issue. The other schools are all lame ducks, and when you are a lame duck in a lame conference known as the "Little Remaining 10 of the Big 12", you try to remedy that status. If you are sinking in quicksand you don't wait to see if the sands will shift so that you will be able to fall back on dry land. You do everything you can to get the hell out ASAP!!!! On top of that, this episode has SUBSTANTIALLY damaged the brand of the other 10 schools. Who now all look like peon little fish programs that are exposed for what they really are- bottom feeders. The Catfish and bullheads of Division 1 football. The only way to repair the damage is by merger.
Nothing we haven't seen before. Now everything is at a negotiation phase regarding when, exit fees etc.
Like in the past when Uconn (& Cincy+USF) collected about $100 mil in exit fees from the BE departures. And then Uconn leaving the AAC early and negotiating their exit fee down to about half of the original "guestimated" amount.

Don't think it'll be any kind of merger as ESPN has showed us over and over with their MO. They just poach a few teams from conference they don't control and move it into the conference they do ( like from BE to the ACC) to make it more valuable. Then they de- value the remaining parts in their corporate raid. This time it's the Big 12. So if they want to circle back and bid they've only payed big money to a few schools (TEX & OK) not all 10 and can get the rest ( + whoever the Big 12 add) on the cheap, no matter how it plays out.

PS> My guess watching them in the past is... I can't see ESPN wanting to merge a Big 12 with the AAC and have to pay more for the bottom feeders and the 11 teams of that conference who they have locked up for 5-7 mil a year for over a decade. They'd probably rather lowball the remaining Big 12 teams(now at 34 Mil a year) on their new contract and only give a raise to a few AAC teams (Cincy, UCF, etc) or a Boise St. , BYU, etc. that get realigned into that new version of the Big 12. But I guess the key is who the bidders will be in 2025 for a rearranged version of the conference ?..... ESPN, FOX, Amazon etc ?

Did ESPN Force ACC/Big East Realignment?

1) Big East turns down billion dollar offer from ESPN
2) Big East explores rights deals with other networks
3) ESPN gets mad… really mad
4) ESPN strikes preemptively to take teams away from the Big East and move them to the ACC (who they do have a billion dollar TV contract with)
5) The Big East becomes less attractive to other networks. Therefore, top caliber live sports are kept off ESPN’s competitors
6) ESPN wins another battle in advancing their sports empire
 
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Russ Wood

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Russ nice back handed shot at Uconn/the BE, LOL ! You should just go back to the Rutgers board with your buddies and all be happy they got into a P-5 when cable boxes really mattered ;).

Because if you read the link that I posted above from the OU board and from the Amazon exec regarding streaming , what's taking place right now was mentioned in 2018 and may not be over. "( high ranking executive at Amazon) . “Instead, we would want to identify 30 or 40 teams that command the biggest audience........generally we all know that there are members in every one of these conferences that frankly don’t move the needle. "

He also called the 6-7 year window.......plus he added: “Don’t sign anything -- don’t agree to anything!” my Amazon friend says. “And, don’t rely on your current conference alignment to be a life preserver; If and when the Titanic begins to list, it’s every man for himself......And, as the water begins to rise above their ankles, we can expect that conference commissioners, in self serving statements, will also be trying to save their jobs telling everyone that will listen that their beloved group of teams will survive, if they just stay together" ..... Sorry captain, but there’s only so many lifeboats!
I wouldn't exactly call the Rutgers board my buddies that LOL. I'm not sure what you're referring to as a backhanded shot at Connecticut and the Big East.

Everybody in the AAC knew Connecticut wanted to leave the American Athletic Conference. That might be something that you don't like to read but that doesn't mean that it's a backhanded shot at Connecticut or the Big East

In fact, I don't blame them for wanting to leave. The way I look at it Connecticut was in the Big East for almost 35 years. That is where Connecticut should be imo. Even if it isn't a Jesuit school.

I may not be the biggest BE fan, but I loved when the BE was created that it was a basketball conference made up of schools stretching from the mid-Atlantic to the Northeast.

This round of conference expansion is being driven by streaming. I don't need to click on a link that leads to comments about an Amazon exec to know that. People have been cutting their cable cords by the millions for years now.
 

the Blades

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I wouldn't exactly call the Rutgers board my buddies that LOL. I'm not sure what you're referring to as a backhanded shot at Connecticut and the Big East.

Everybody in the AAC knew Connecticut wanted to leave the American Athletic Conference. That might be something that you don't like to read but that doesn't mean that it's a backhanded shot at Connecticut or the Big East

In fact, I don't blame them for wanting to leave. The way I look at it Connecticut was in the Big East for almost 35 years. That is where Connecticut should be imo. Even if it isn't a Jesuit school.

I may not be the biggest BE fan, but I loved when the BE was created that it was a basketball conference made up of schools stretching from the mid-Atlantic to the Northeast.

This round of conference expansion is being driven by streaming. I don't need to click on a link that leads to comments about an Amazon exec to know that. People have been cutting their cable cords by the millions for years now.
Welcome back, what would we do with out ya ;)....So are you trying to say everyone didn't also know
OK and TEX had one foot out the door of the Big 12 forever. Do you remember when it was the Big 12 and BE talking about a merger because of those 2 leaving for the PAC? I could right a book on this stuff and have on this website over the years. So your not telling me anything I don't know. Meaning there's no reason to come over here and engage me on it. Truthfully I really don't even like to do this CR stuff with outsiders.

And as far as tourney bids and the BE, I'm not worried about that either since this is a Uconn site and Uconn wins championships. You might want to go to some other BE school sites to drop that bit of speculation. It might be more appropriate and realistically, what's your point ? That certain BE fans should worry ?

PS. Russ who's your team ?... since your obviosly not a BE or Uconn fan ?
 
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the Blades

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But I guess the key is who the bidders will be in 2025 for a rearranged version of the conference ?..... ESPN, FOX, Amazon etc ?
Speaking of here's a new player in not only CFB sponsorship but also as a broadcaster. It will be interesting to see who joins the landscape. And don't forget the infamous words of that crack pot Bob Diaco, "let's broadcast the games on Nickelodeon" o_O :

“It became clear our title sponsorship would have an implication on where the Arizona Bowl could be broadcast,” Barstool CEO Nardini said, alluding to Barstool’s complicated history with certain networks, including ESPN. Instead of navigating the politics of a media partner, the title sponsor offered its services.

“There’s no reason we can’t play in the broadcast space, the sponsorship space and the comedy or personality and opinion space,” Nardini said. “Obviously, we want to make sure we do it right and do it well, but this is a watershed moment for rethinking where and how games are broadcast.”

 
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KhalidShockedTheWorld

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Blades,

Since being head coach at UConn, Bob Diaco has worked one year and then been fired at 4 different schools, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Louisiana Tech and Purdue. Since being fired by Purdue in 2020 he seems to be without employment. This is a remarkable run. If you extend it to UConn he has been fired by 5 college football programs in 5 successive years. Has this "accomplishment" ever been matched? To me it's a remarkable accomplishment. I have worked at the same law firm for 22 years and I wonder what it would be like to have been fired by 5 different law firms in 5 years. I would be looking for some other career I think. And wondering how I secured all those jobs.

On a separate note I feel for Diaco's wife and family. Moves from CT, to Nebraska, then Oklahoma, then Louisiana and then Ohio. 5 moves in 5 years. Moves are difficult. They are upheaval for a family. It's got to have been hard for them. I cherish my own stability living in the same home for 20 years.
 
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Yep , this guy has to be the all-time leader in a coach getting paid so much, for doing so little, at so many places..At least Warde wasn't the only one to get bamboozled. But we're the only one who had to live with his terrible game day coaching, no punt returns allowed, fake rivalry nonsense.

Some of these tweets after Purdue canned him after one year are hilarious ...


Purdue fans react to the firing of defensive coordinator Bobby red pants

 
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