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Is it just one game....................

Dominicfrank

Well-Known Member
Aug 28, 2004
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So as a UConn family we need to look objectively at what we have in front of us and ask if this is one game or is it who we have become. Here are what I would argue are the facts so we can discuss what we are and where do we go from here.

Facts:
  • Its hard to win national titles
  • We have 4 national titles since 1999
    • 4 with JC's players
    • 3 with JC as Head Coach
    • 1 with Ollie
    • no other team has more in that time frame and only one has as many
  • Its not hard to recruit when you are winning
  • Its not hard to coach when you have superior talent
  • Its not easy winning national titles with ANY level of talent (Calamari, Self, Boeheim, etc..)
  • We have fallen from Champion to lowest point since the 70's as a program
  • Its hard to recruit when you are losing
    • and you are in the middle of nowhere Connecticut
  • Its hard to turn on one of your own (Ollie)
  • We thought we had a family man as a HC
  • We thought we had a teacher as a HC (Durant's comments)
  • We thought we had players coach that kids would flock to
  • JC hand picked our coach for the future
  • We look to join a P5 conference as a basketball program that has promise on the Football side
  • Our HC has had more players LEAVE him than that have made an NBA roster
  • Our HC takes no blame for anything bad that happens on the court
  • Our HC takes no blame for kids leaving him
  • Our HC doesn't land top recruits that list us as a suitor and often top 5
  • We lost more games last year than almost ever before in one season
  • We lost more than we won last year for the first time since the '70's
  • Our HC does not stop his players from jacking up shots from anywhere at anytime
  • Our HC never uses the quick hook his HOF mentor used to perfection
  • We still have a name in NY that can be useful
  • We have a great practice facility
  • We still have recent titles
  • We are in a top basketball conference
  • Carlton seems to have something you can develop
  • We have not developed ONE big since Ollie took over
  • Gilbert seems to have something to build on
  • We do know how to let guards do their thing
  • We are MF'ing UConn
Please list as many as you can think of and of course pick mine apart if need be. I hate it but I think we have to let Ollie go but if we do what the hell are we going to do next? He will have left us with a DOG of a team with no real help in site.
 
I think you covered it all Dom.... you know even JC took a shot (indirectly) at Ollie's style of play on WFAN a few weeks ago
 
Today's loss is very troubling. I did not see it coming and the team that took the floor was not competitive in any way and was terrible on offense and on defense. UConn is shooting well under 30% from 3 point land which is pitiful. There did not seem to be any cohesive offense and when UConn had open looks they could not make them. Arkansas scored easily all game. Arkansas is a pretty good team, maybe top 20, but that does not excuse a 35 point loss in which UConn was not competitive and did not look like they belonged with Arkansas on the court.

My honest assessment is that Larrier, Adams and Gilbert are not as good as advertised, but what's worse is they do not compete. Gilbert may be hurt so I give him a little bit of a pass but none of these guys are good shooters or efficient scorers. Also, all 3 regularly attempt high degree of difficulty shots, which are not necessary. Probably because they have been led to believe that they are better players than they actually are.

And all of this reflects on the coach, I am afraid to say. UConn has looked like underachievers for a few years in a row now and I have been reading many national media article that the days of UConn being a top program are over, this one from the SEC blog is typical:

https://www.seccountry.com/arkansas...-to-continue-great-start-to-basketball-season

This kind of shit kills recruiting, because perception becomes reality when you perform horribly twice in back to back national TV games.
 
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I was shocked that the ESPN coverage made a mockery of UConn......Walton went on for almost eh entire 2nd half talking about his knowledge of 'trivia' and his ESPN colleague and a third person behind the scenes allowed it to happen by fact checking.....granted teh performance of UConn was TERRIBLE, but ESPN behavior was rude and unprofessional
 
I think those 3 don t compete because they know their game plan is bunk. How do you show up to work with a good attitude when your leader is very clearly incompetent? They may start out strong but it won't take much to give up if they don't believe in it.

SE, VJ & JD didn't believe in it & bailed, so we blamed them by saying VJ had daddy issues, JD was soft & SE couldn't play anyway.

We have 3 very capable players who belong on the floor against any opponent and a high level contributor in CV, this isn't on these kids, just like it was never on Amida. KO doesn't have a damn clue and his top assistant doesn't know anything about scouting, preparation or game planning. Everything collapsed around him at Washington & we were so excited to add him to our staff with a combined 10 years experience in coaching.

Wth did people think was going to happen? How long does he need to display that he simply lacks the ability to coach?

Take what you witnessed with your eyes and add it to Kevin's post game comments to adjust your expectations on what this team's ceiling is with him at the helm. No accountability, no leadership, no clue. When a coach tells you he can't do something, that's called an "excuse", when a coach makes excuses what do you think his players are going to do?

Dead man walking, the sooner the AD accepts this the faster the program takes steps in a positive direction.

Honestly, I never thought I'd see the day when the uconn men's bb coach made a bunch of sorry ass excuses after a loss.
 




just a FYI---

Ollie’s extension also includes a base salary of $400,000, but has public relations, consulting and media fee payments that start at $2.7 million for 2016-17 and escalates to $3.3 million for 2020-21. Like Auriemma and other UConn coaches, he receives a Hartford Golf Club membership, an automobile allowance and tickets to UConn events.

Should Ollie be fired from his position as head coach during the contract, UConn will owe him $600,000. If Ollie chooses to leave UConn for another NCAA Division I school, he or the new school will be responsible for paying UConn. If Ollie were to leave after this season, UConn would $500,000. This amount decreases in $100,000 increments until 2020-21, where UConn would receive $100,000 if he left that season to coach at another school. There is no buyout clause if Ollie were leave to coach an NBA team. According to Jacobs, this buyout clause was negated when former athletic director Warde Manuel left UConn to become the athletic director at Michigan last year.

The Daily Campus- Auriemma, Ollie sign extensions with UConn
 
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It’s a horrible contract (for UConn) and probably represented an overreaction to very short term success Ollie had with JC’s players. Now he has his own guys and they cannot run his pick and roll offense or defend. Dave Benedict should have a very short leash. More games like this one are NOT acceptable! If this doesn’t turn around and the team continues to play horribly I would react before letting it get into an out of control downward spiral. Even if our 3 star players aren’t as good as we thought, they are not stiffs and Arkansas isn’t 35 points better. UConn basketball is about pride and guts and toughness and competing and I have seen none of that except the very end of the Stony Brook game, a team UConn should have beaten easily and not needed a 19-2 run to erase a late 9 point deficit.
 
Also here's a harsh but true read from WTNH sports:

Kevin Ollie has some soul-searching to do after UConn’s humiliating 102-67 loss to Arkansas

All from the article:

" UConn has plenty of individual talent, but it’s not being utilized properly, and the focus on one-on-one play and lack of ball movement is making the Huskies one of the easiest teams in the sport to guard........ The Huskies were anemic on offense (what else is new), played with near-apathy on defense and had given up about midway through the second half.

Jalen Adams is a gifted offensive player. He can break people down and get to the rim like few guards in the country. But he’s not Allen Iverson, and this isn’t the mid-2000’s NBA. Terry Larrier is long, athletic, and a good shooter. But you can’t just give him the ball and expect him to make something happen. Same goes for Alterique Gilbert, Christian Vital, and everybody else on this team.

Even Walton, who was going off on soliloquies ..... had UConn’s offense completely broken down in the minute and a half in which he paid attention..... “When has that ever gone in?” Walton quipped after Larrier launched a desperate, falling-down 3 that might have nicked the side of the backboard. “Kevin Ollie just needs somebody to hit five three-pointers in a row, and then they’ll be back in this one,” he noted minutes later. The sad thing is, that was pretty much the plan......

"Maybe it’s time to give Jim Calhoun a call. He wouldn’t have put up with this, and UConn fans shouldn’t have to, either."
 
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A good friend of mine has had a good relationship with Ollie for years and YES he is an overall good guy but not the family man and mentor everyone, including me, swore he was when he got the job. He has been telling me for years Ollie has a LOT of learning to do coaching this high level of basketball TO KIDS. I stress that last part for a reason. Ollie is a great mentor for the end of a bench in the NBA and not yet a good or even average NCAA coach. He doesnt have a clue how to mentor a KID or make a KID better.

What he is good at is talking KD in down times to get that level of talent on track. Hell, look at Bazz, JC's recruit.....as we are seeing now is an a NBA above average player and Ollie did a great job with him helping him through down times but make no mistake..........Bazz won that title for us, not Ollie. Boatright fed off of Bazz, not Ollie. Giff and Daniels....you get the point.

Ollie can win in the NCAA ranks IF he gets his Melo, Bazz, Kemba, etc.....He can not coach himself to a title just like Calamari cant. now if you got Ollie as an assistant on the squids team they might just win them all.
 
Great points Dom. If what your friend says is true, he's fooled quite a few folks. Does anyone watch the movement, or lack thereof, away from the ball? Carlton got the ball inside and was looking for a cutter. My wife is yelling at him to get rid of the ball....but he had absolutely nobody to throw it to. TL was sitting out in 3 point land, even Gilbert was not moving. I'm dumbfounded - first thing we teach our kids in travel ball is to move without the ball on O. Just f n move, cut, anything. And, the ability to pick someone is gawd awful. It's actually amusing if you watch. Like so many in here have said, it's very easy to cover us 1-on-1. I've been watching some of our old games with JC in charge and what a difference...even when we didnt have alot of talent. It's a sad day when i get home, rush in cuz i'm late for the game and my family is watching another hoops game cuz it's too painful for them to watch the huskies. Of course i need to watch and ruin my Sunday like all of us in here.
 
Great points from both you guys. Because I've had that take on KO too and it's the reason, why after watching games last year, even before Rique and Larrier's injuries, I saw things going on that just didn't make sense and I hope it doesn't snowball out of control again.. These are KIDS, not NBA professionals, you just don't hand them the keys. In the NBA overcoaching could get you fired, that's the guy who goes first. But you have to micro manage these KIDS and set up structure at every turn to mold em' into winners. KO lets way to many teaching moments just fly right over his and more importantly their heads. Call it BB IQ, fundamentals, defensive intensity, etc.. Plus like I said his small ball concept, one on one and lack of rebounding size/presence plus specifically BALL MOVEMENT( that's you Shaggy) were crucified by Calhoun on WFAN 2 weeks ago without mentioning KO's name. It seemed like Francesca carefully stayed away from the issue of the current Uconn program, maybe per JC's request, pre-interview.

Like you said Dom, Bazz was a winner but he was also a work in progress. I'll even given KO credit for "help" with developing him....but I also remember JC beating Bazz up for to much dribbling his first 2 years and he had the linkage of a winner to model after in Kemba, just like Kemba had a guy like AJ Price who also developed after playing for Calhoun. And regarding Bazz, Kemba, AJ, etc... I'll use a term Tom Izzo calls "leadership and followership" as something you need to have as a winning team. Everyone has to know their rolls and the head coach can't allow rogue players, just running around free styling it. There's only one guy who's proven he can win games for this Uconn squad on numerous occasions. But even that guy, who could be a leader, will get frustrated and his play will suffer when he's playing with a bunch of new jack team mates who have proven nothing, but are allowed to play out of control & shoot em' out of games before he even touches the ball in this stagnate offense.

The bottom line is I don't think these KIDS respect KO much and I don't think he commands much respect with his actions. Is it to late ?..because when they don't some guys leave ..and maybe others like Jalen just learn to say the right things....but does he believe them ?
 
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I've posted it before..... but this is the type of screen/offense and in this case lack of ball movement, that is micro managed & made sure to be addressed:

 
That is a fair assessment by Amore. “Hero Ball.” Something definitely is missing. One thing I disagree on is the mileage of the win over Oregon outweighing what else happened in the tournament. The detrimental impact of huge, embarrassing losses in national TV cannot be underestimated. A lot of Committee members will remember that game if UConn should prove to be a bubble tournament team. If it comes down to UConn or an SEC 7th place team which beat Arkansas who do you think will get the nod?

Regarding the comment on Napier I vividly recall the problem with too much dribbling and then the shot clock winding down and a bad shot would have to be quickly hoisted to beat the shot clock. The problem was particularly acute in the Battle of Atlantis tournament which I attended Napier’s sophomore year. In that tournament UConn blew a game to UCF after holding a double digit lead and then won a thriller over Florida State. Eventually those problems were fixed. Napier was really new to leading the team and the kid cared and wanted to make correct decisions which I think led to overdribbling.

In the first 6 games this year there has been no concerted and consistent effort to work for good shots. When UConn has had open shots they have missed. And then the Hero Ball kicks in and guys start taking rushed and more difficult shots.

Ollie says it’s because nobody is cutting hard enough. In fact there isn’t any movement without the ball as has already been mentioned.

When you go 6 games and nothing good is happening it’s time to seriously re-assess things, the coaching and the talent of the players as well. The bigs probably could be serviceable if they are properly involved but since they haven’t been jury is out on that.
 
Agreed, the win over a really bad Oregon is being over-stated. I thought they'd lose that game, but I thought Oregon would be a lot better than they are.

The last 6 ooc games are huge, I see them going 3-3 heading into Wichita State & absent a great awakening, they'll be RedRummed by the Shockers.

The REALLY interesting game on the schedule is the game after Wichita State @ a currently 3-3 Tulsa, January 3rd. I've been saying since Summer ko doesn't get past January, that game could be the straw.
 
I've posted it before..... but this is the type of screen/offense and in this case lack of ball movement, that is micro managed & made sure to be addressed:

No doubt Blades, great illustration. And, look how far the point is away from the lane. Not sure we have a point strong enough to even make that pass. For full transparency, most of the points i make on my posts have already been aired on one thread or another & most probably by you. So my apologies to anyone i dont reference when i post. Blades you do a yeoman's job of mentioning when posters make a good point. Anyway..

Just put together a spreadsheet of how Ollie has recruited since being HC. I was trying to prove a point to a colleague that he's actually recruited relatively well (up until 2017 & not including his 1st year...which i guess would mean on 3 years). But when you look back at how well JC recruited (not totally fair given the fact we're comparing BE to AAC & HOF'r JC to very very young coach (in yrs as HC), we're in for a long haul. Shout out to Blades (and Anderson i believe...sorry for missing any others) for pointing this out in one of the threads :)

I once played baseball with a guy who went on to pitch at the D1 level, then got drafted and spent a few years in the minors b4 hanging it up. He knew so much about baseball, way way more than i did and i coached in high school. When our boys got old enough to play travel ball, he coached a team and i coached a team (this story is not about me). From what i saw....and what i heard from parents.....he had no clue how to lead a team....no clue how to teach. This coming from i guy a really respected in the game. How could this be?

Turns out this guy was a solid assistant coach...but not a head coach. Everything is different when you are calling the shots.I dont know KO personally. I love who I think he is/was. I love what he is perceived to be. He bleeds husky blue. I will give him a longer leash than most....like i disgustingly did with Diaco. I dont' know what the alternative is to KO. I know i want this to work. From where i sit i cant tell if he is getting thru to the kids, or if he is going about it the right way. The way they played D yesterday i would say he is not. The way they run their O, i shake my head. I guess we'll see over the next few weeks. Not saying anything that's not been mentioned recently. What i do know is the one Scarlett Knights fan at work is starting to get worried that UC will come sniffing around their gym if this year is a train wreck in Storrs. By then it may be too late...
 
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He bleeds husky blue. I will give him a longer leash than most....like i disgustingly did with Diaco. I dont' know what the alternative is to KO. I know i want this to work. From where i sit i cant tell if he is getting thru to the kids, or if he is going about it the right way. The way they played D yesterday i would say he is not. The way they run their O, i shake my head. I guess we'll see over the next few weeks. Not saying anything that's not been mentioned recently. What i do know is the one Scarlett Knights fan at work is starting to get worried that UC will come sniffing around their gym if this year is a train wreck in Storrs. By then it may be too late...
That's the double edge sword....who'd be next ? .. When you start playing musical chairs it kills the stability and recruiting in a program..& in the AAC as we have seen with it's FB coaches, the P-5 ( $$$ ) just poaches away HC's as soon as they have some success. Those NBA rumors that gave KO a big pay boost seem like years ago but when Uconn's paying him over $3 mil + to coach in the AAC. he can't keep losing the fan base( ticket sales) with terrible BB ...or the questions get worse.
 
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Sometimes writing is on the wall that things are going south and you just have to pull the plug to prevent a downward spiral. I really believe we could be close to reaching that point. Nationally embarrassing performances are intolerable. If UConn throws in another stink bomb performance against Syracuse next week in the Jimmy V classic it will be 3 straight horrendous national TV performances and this (a) kills recruiting and (b) kills fan interest. The Syracuse game cannot go like the Arkansas game did. Otherwise a mid season fire looms as possible. JC would be the perfect interim coach if that can be negotiated. If not maybe Larry Brown who is strangely jobless, although he will want a mountain of money. The money owed KO is irrelevant - nothing is more important than the reputation of the program. It is being tarnished and it has to be stopped.
 
Dave Fizdale was just fired by the Memphis Grizzlies and is an interim head coach candidate if Dave Benedict needs to make a move at some point. Word is the Fiz will not be unemployed long and has an assistant coach gig with the Heat in his back pocket if he wants it. I say he wants to be a main man head coach, and he could be the man in college.
 
Cuse was hitting the boards hard tonight. could be a long night for the Dogs at MSG.
 
That's the double edge sword....who'd be next ? .. No doubt Blades (Double Edged Sword for sure) When you start playing musical chairs it kills the stability and recruiting in a program..& in the AAC as we have seen with it's FB coaches, the P-5 ( $$$ ) just poaches away HC's as soon as they have some success. Those NBA rumors that gave KO a big pay boost seem like years ago but when Uconn's paying him over $3 mil + to coach in the AAC. he can't keep losing the fan base( ticket sales) with terrible BB ...or the questions get worse.

So, what's the answer? (rhetorical) How long do we wait for KO to turn things around? I'm not big on cutting ties during the season...so they go 20-14 (not sure how many games they play off hand) make the NIT and go 3-1. Does he stay for another year? I mean, i'm not giving him a pass for the team he has since he's either recruited or recruits transferred on his watch...that's on him. But, at no time have i believed this team was going to make the Tourney this season....or at least in my heart of hearts i knew it was a long shot. Do we stay blue and look in-house? if we don't, i agree we're just a stepping stone. I always thought there were 4 levels at D1 hoops & this has nothing to do with the past 20 years...goes back much longer. 1) Pure blue bloods like Kentucky, Duke, UNC, Kansas, MSU, UCLA, Indiana, Ville) We can all argue my picks but u get the idea. Teams who have a long history of hoops (let's say 50 yrs) will always be able to get some top players, and in some cases despite the HC 2) Next level just below Blue Bloods but perennial top 25 most years....Zona, UConn, Cuse, Virginia, Texas, OSU, Cincinnati etc. 3) strong mid majors Wichita St, Zags (both now have moved up a level) Harvard, Illinois St, Providence, Rutgers :) and 4) low level teams...anyway, i had a point when i started typing...oh yeah, While Wichita St & Gonzaga have moved up a level, Uconn has clearly slid into that mid major level. hard to deny it...so as Blades mentions if we dont get someone from the family the job becomes a stepping stone. It's crazy to even say that but unless things change drastically that's life in the AAC. I do hold out hope that maybe this season will be like how the dream season started in league play....when a lot of fans were giving up when the huskies started out 0-2 in the BE and got absolutely hammered by either St John's or Nova. So, sometimes when things look hopeless....I guess this is all speculation until things play themselves out. But i dont see AD cutting ties, esp with a family member, during the year. Not buying that - but the play over the past 2+ years (and let's face it, they weren't overpowering in 2014 prior to their improbable run) has us thinking what the next step is. What's the answer!?!
 
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I am not against an in season termination if we do not see improvement. The team hasn’t looked good at all in any game. The Arkansas game was a complete debacle. I wouldn’t make a move prior to the next 4 games and Wichita State. If the team continues to perform very poorly I would then consider termination. This would only happen if I had a qualified interim head coach (eg JC or Larry Brown) waiting in the wings agreeing to the interim position. The fans and the players themselves deserve to see the team be the best it can be.
 
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These losses don't happen in a vacuum, there is the lack of offense, transfers, lack of preparation for games, a recently aquired inability to play defense, player conduct issues, and my personal favorite, a seemingly inappropriate relationship with some of his players. 2014 Kevin Ollie gets a pass on this year imo if the Huskies narrowly miss the tournament. 2017 Kevin Ollie gets paid to go away.
 
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